New Webley Service

[Garvin]

I'm still not clear who would want one running at full power, without a scope - which would look a bit ridiculous, surely? To be used for what, hunting, FT?

For the same money, wouldn't almost everyone prefer an original 1930s Mk2 Service running at the sort of power they were designed to make, and with one of the beautiful peep sights that came with the original?

With a fixed barrel and no peep sight, it kind of kills the whole point of using the Webley as the source design, doesn't it?

Now the opposed gas ram recoilless rifle... that's genius.

[micky2]

I'm still not clear who would want one running at full power, without a scope - which would look a bit ridiculous, surely? To be used for what, hunting, FT?

For the same money, wouldn't almost everyone prefer an original 1930s Mk2 Service running at the sort of power they were designed to make, and with one of the beautiful peep sights that came with the original?

With a fixed barrel and no peep sight, it kind of kills the whole point of using the Webley as the source design, doesn't it?

Now the opposed gas ram recoilless rifle... that's genius.

Hi Danny, l have to agree with your comments on the service. but l think they could be on a winner with the gas ram.

[Phil B]

I’ve been in touch with Tony Belas at Sterling, with a link to here, and with his permission, here is the response from Tony.

“Thank you for the link which I have been reading with interest and points noted. I really appreciate your help and when I have a little more time and we have decided on which direction to go in I will post directly. The PCP Mk2 is fascinating and actually suggested at the planning phase not knowing that it had been done before. Got to say that the one in the picture is just genius .

We went to great pains to say that the rifles were prototypes shown as such so we could get customer feedback before we start production. This seems to have been lost on the posters who seem to think the guns shown were a done deal. The interchangeable barrel thing for example, it came across loud and clear at the show that that was a feature that was wanted, no problem, we will do that but it drives up cost, probably at least £130 per barrel assembly. Yes they can have it but are they prepared to pay up to £1300 for a fully tricked rifle? Or will we have boxes of unordered spare barrels, time will tell.

We will give it another week and then firm up some specifications and get on with making them! Please could you pass on my thanks to the BBS? Keep ‘em coming and be as critical as they like, its not an ego trip we are on it’s a business trip!

Atb

tony

T Belas”

They’re listening folks!! :-)

[Garvin]

So it's a PCP? Ah, that changes things a bit! But only a bit. It still doesn't deal with the absence of a peep sight like the original, or the question of who might actually use it, and what for?

I think we all realised they were prototypes and work in progress. We were careful to recognise the innovative thinking - and that was before it was clear we were talking PCP!

The extra cost of a removeable barrel drives this product even further from the values of originals, but knowing it's a PCP and thus recoilless does at least differentiate it from the original.

[Troubledshooter]

I too had an email from Tony along similar lines, in which he expressed an interest in my PCP Service. I sent photographs and the only schematic drawing I have, with the permission of John Walker, the creator of the PCP Service rifle.
I look forward to any possible future developments.

Having just seen Danny's post above, I've edited this post to say the current proposed Sterling Service rifle is NOT a PCP. It was only the fact that a couple of people mentioned my PCP Service at their stand that reignited Sterling's interest in the possibility.

[Shed tuner]

John walker was indeed a very clever chap; did some great conversions. He also did a few webley pistols (to CO2). Same overlever cocking, but you just move it an inch or so.

[Troubledshooter]

John walker was indeed a very clever chap; did some great conversions. He also did a few webley pistols (to CO2). Same overlever cocking, but you just move it an inch or so.

He's still alive and kicking Jon, I was speaking to him on the phone half an hour ago.
He doesn't do air pistol conversions any more, and only the occasional air rifle mainly for his own interest.

[Garvin]

I too had an email from Tony along similar lines, in which he expressed an interest in my PCP Service. I sent photographs and the only schematic drawing I have, with the permission of John Walker, the creator of the PCP Service rifle.
I look forward to any possible future developments.

Having just seen Danny's post above, I've edited this post to say the current proposed Sterling Service rifle is NOT a PCP. It was only the fact that a couple of people mentioned my PCP Service at their stand that reignited Sterling's interest in the possibility.

Oh I see, David. So Tony was talking about your John Walker PCP! In that case my (and others') original observations still stand.

[andrewM]

I am confused. Is the new Sterling Mk2 a PCP or a springer that is intended to replicate the Webley Service MK2? Can we have an authoritative response?

Perhaps there could be a removable barrel but also a fixed barrel version, at a lower cost. Possibly, this would not be feasible as it would involve two different production models.

The cost is the biggest factor, methinks. Those here well know the old Mk2 Service rifle but how many know this amongst the buying public? Will Sterling sell, based on its brand name, regardless of price - like a Bentley motor car?

What is the competition, more generally? HW and Air Arms are two with splendid reputations, just for a start. Sterling wants to charge a premium but will the market tolerate it? A small number might buy but will they cover production costs and provide a return on capital? What will Sterling offer for its products that other manufacturers do not, to justify the higher prices?

I am struggling hard to see how this adds up from a business viewpoint. Perhaps Sterling has done its sums but perhaps not. It might end up copying Webley too closely: one recalls the Mk3 was a successful rifle, selling very widely but it never made any money for the company, as far as I understand it. I would like to see Sterling making money and coming out with new and innovative products to knock the German competition.

[Binners]

I’ve been in touch with Tony Belas at Sterling, with a link to here, and with his permission, here is the response from Tony.

“Thank you for the link which I have been reading with interest and points noted. I really appreciate your help and when I have a little more time and we have decided on which direction to go in I will post directly. The PCP Mk2 is fascinating and actually suggested at the planning phase not knowing that it had been done before. Got to say that the one in the picture is just genius .

We went to great pains to say that the rifles were prototypes shown as such so we could get customer feedback before we start production. This seems to have been lost on the posters who seem to think the guns shown were a done deal. The interchangeable barrel thing for example, it came across loud and clear at the show that that was a feature that was wanted, no problem, we will do that but it drives up cost, probably at least £130 per barrel assembly. Yes they can have it but are they prepared to pay up to £1300 for a fully tricked rifle? Or will we have boxes of unordered spare barrels, time will tell.

We will give it another week and then firm up some specifications and get on with making them! Please could you pass on my thanks to the BBS? Keep ‘em coming and be as critical as they like, its not an ego trip we are on it’s a business trip!

Atb

tony

T Belas”

They’re listening folks!! :-)

Great to know they are listening on here, this is the home of serious collectors I wonder if we will see the latest proto-type at Kempton in March ?

[Binners]

Great to know they are listening on here, this is the home of serious collectors I wonder if we will see the latest proto-type at Kempton in March ?

Unfortunately no Service on show at Kempton next Sunday.

[gingernut]

Unfortunately no show at Kempton next Sunday.

You could have put that a little clearer Pete
Spat out my tea.
You mean no appearance by shiny new Service.

[Binners]

You could have put that a little clearer Pete
Spat out my tea.
You mean no appearance by shiny new Service.

Whoops Thanks for making it clear, now edited