Re-blacking a Walther LP3 barrel

[edbear2]

Many thanks for your very knowledgeable input, which gave me much food for thought. It prompted me to have a look at what Wikipedia says, and apparently there are 8 types of aluminium alloy and only group 7 contains any zinc. Within this group (called the 7000 series) the zinc content averages about 8% and is never more than 11%, so this means that if the LP53 alloy is aluminium based , it should be easy to detect which is the dominant metal by chemical means. On the other hand, zinc alloys containing aluminium can contain up to 25% aluminium, so it would be bit more difficult to sort out the dominant metal chemically.

It seems to me that the best way of sorting this question out is to actually try anodising and blacking a sample barrel. If it is an aluminium alloy, the 8-11% zinc will not interfere much with the anodising process and so a good black finish should be achievable. On the other hand, if it is a zinc alloy with only 25% or less aluminium, there will be virtually no colour take-up , as zinc does not anodise.

As the Walther black finish has all the characteristics of an anodised coating, this almost answers the question, but the proof of the pudding is still in the eating. If Matt goes ahead with an anodising experiment on his barrel and gets a positive result, then this will not only answer the question, but will give collectors a way of restoring their faded barrels with a genuine Walther-type finish.

I would say all groups have Zinc, but 1-6 very little in fact, Wiki is O.K. but you need to click on the series number itself and then read the full spec, as otherwise they just state the main alloying elements.

But really yes, the 7000 group is the only one with a substantial (compared to the trace amount in the lower groups) percentage.

All the above is just tech stuff really, as you say a practical experiment will be far more useful.

ATB, Ed

[ptdunk]

I’ll share the results when I’ve tried.

Matt

[pajj]

Thanks to ccdjg for some very useful info.

[nurek]

I’ll share the results when I’ve tried.

Matt

Any news Matt? I ask as I am looking to get a few parts reanodised black. Thanks!

[ptdunk]

Any news Matt? I ask as I am looking to get a few parts reanodised black. Thanks!

Not yet I’m afraid, will try ccdjg’s anodising & dyeing technique but once I have the original finish stripped I might try various cold blue or aluminium black solutions just to make sure they don’t work before trying the anodising.
Won’t be for a while though, always got plenty of airgun projects in the pipeline.

Cheers,
Matt

[nurek]

Good luck Matt! I might try a commercial anodising company, but am worried about removing the old finish and keeping tolerances once refinished (it's for a different gun). Let's see how that works out, like you I have plenty of other stuff to keep me occupied so am not in a rush!

[edbear2]

Good luck Matt! I might try a commercial anodising company, but am worried about removing the old finish and keeping tolerances once refinished (it's for a different gun). Let's see how that works out, like you I have plenty of other stuff to keep me occupied so am not in a rush!

Badger anodizing in Birmingham are really good, have used them for 20 years for fiddly 6 and 7 hundred series Al aircraft parts, Aircraft interior fittings and Galley / safety latches etc. etc.. if you explain exactly what you want they will do it.

Never had a problem, never lost a part of the probably several hundred they have done for us.

https://www.badgeranodising.co.uk/contact

ATB, Ed

[ccdjg]

Not yet I’m afraid, will try ccdjg’s anodising & dyeing technique but once I have the original finish stripped I might try various cold blue or aluminium black solutions just to make sure they don’t work before trying the anodising.
Won’t be for a while though, always got plenty of airgun projects in the pipeline.

Cheers,
Matt

Matt, just to clear things up a bit, thanks to help from Leonard Joe we were able to definitely show that the barrel of the LP53 was not aluminium alloy after all, but was zinc alloy. See the thread here: https://www.airgunbbs.com/showthread...3+barrel+alloy

This means you will NOT be able to anodise it and one of the alternative methods will have to be used.

[nurek]

Badger anodizing in Birmingham are really good, have used them for 20 years for fiddly 6 and 7 hundred series Al aircraft parts, Aircraft interior fittings and Galley / safety latches etc. etc.. if you explain exactly what you want they will do it.

Never had a problem, never lost a part of the probably several hundred they have done for us.

https://www.badgeranodising.co.uk/contact

ATB, Ed

Thanks Ed! I'll give them a call. Like with everything, it's about the preparation of the surface, so will need to ask them if they can do that and remove the original anodising. I'm worried if this can affect the thickness/tolerances.

[ccdjg]

Thanks Ed! I'll give them a call. Like with everything, it's about the preparation of the surface, so will need to ask them if they can do that and remove the original anodising. I'm worried if this can affect the thickness/tolerances.

Please note previous post.
Cheers,
John

[ptdunk]

Matt, just to clear things up a bit, thanks to help from Leonard Joe we were able to definitely show that the barrel of the LP53 was not aluminium alloy after all, but was zinc alloy. See the thread here: https://www.airgunbbs.com/showthread...3+barrel+alloy

This means you will NOT be able to anodise it and one of the alternative methods will have to be used.

Hi John,

There seems to have been some crossed wires on this thread as when I started the thread I was originally asking about the LP3 SSP but some people have mentioned the LP53 which I believe is a different material.

I believe the LP3 is an alloy with a layer of anodised aluminium on it.

Very useful info on the LP53 though.

Cheers,
Matt

[ccdjg]

Hi John,

There seems to have been some crossed wires on this thread as when I started the thread I was originally asking about the LP3 SSP but some people have mentioned the LP53 which I believe is a different material.

I believe the LP3 is an alloy with a layer of anodised aluminium on it.

Very useful info on the LP53 though.

Cheers,
Matt

Thanks Matt. I am a bit surprised that Walther would have used completely different alloys for the LP53 and LP3. Is there any chapter and verse on the LP3 material? I was convinced the LP53 was aluminium until I was able to do some actual testing of a barrel sample.
Cheers,
John

[ptdunk]

Thanks Matt. I am a bit surprised that Walther would have used completely different alloys for the LP53 and LP3. Is there any chapter and verse on the LP3 material? I was convinced the LP53 was aluminium until I was able to do some actual testing of a barrel sample.
Cheers,
John

Hi John,
To be honest I’m just assuming this based on my LP3, but I could easily be wrong.

There is a patch of wear on the barrel which has worn through the finish to the substrate material.
I tried some cold blue, and also some aluminium black neither of which would take on the substrate material in the centre of the worn area, but it would take on the very edge of the area of wear.
This makes me think the substrate is covered with an extremely thin layer of something that will take cold blue.
From your description of anodising I think it sounds likely.

Any way I can test?

Cheers,
Matt

[johnbaz]

I bought one from a local bootsale, The barrel on it was very pale and dull grey, I tried using several cold reblueing kits on it, Two (I think Ballistol and Phillips) were liquid, The otrher was somethink like G-96 gel, I think it was the gel that did the job!, First I tried it just on the top flat part and it came out really good so I polished it off and did the whole lot, No idea why but it didn't come out as dark this time!

The pistol when i'd just brought it home..



After,,







I may dig it out and try again with a low heat applied..


John

[ptdunk]

I bought one from a local bootsale, The barrel on it was very pale and dull grey, I tried using several cold reblueing kits on it, Two (I think Ballistol and Phillips) were liquid, The otrher was somethink like G-96 gel, I think it was the gel that did the job!, First I tried it just on the top flat part and it came out really good so I polished it off and did the whole lot, No idea why but it didn't come out as dark this time!

The pistol when i'd just brought it home..



After,,







I may dig it out and try again with a low heat applied..


John

Thanks for that, I’ve ordered some G96 to try.

How would you apply heat? Pop the barrel in the oven for a few mins?


Cheers,
Matt