Cheats

[ross H]

good post darren personally i much prefer someone to tell me if im doing something wrong as we all have a blonde moment and forget things. i have no problem admitting that i have been pulled up for my kneeling position because i shoot hft to two differnt sets of rules (csfta and ukahft) so occasionally foget how im allowed to kneel for the rules im shooting, i think people need to say something if someone isnt doing what they are surpossed to as its surpossed to be buddy marshalling to a degree.

RE people claiming shots they didnt get this does like most people annoy me but tbh if people are willing to go to that length then that is up to them, they are cheating themselves and they know they havent been truthful.

[MattW]

I guess, as in many sports, the "it's not the winning it's the taking part" philosophy matters less to some.

In others sports I've been involved in, I've seen many competitors become obsessed with winning to the point that it becomes an all consuming monster - cheating is just one more way to feed the monster.

And don't get me started about parents and kids - you should see some of the parents on the sidelines at the local kids football league matches - they positively bay for blood

cheers
Matt

[laity]

5 pages long....all on cheating?? Seems as if everyone has a story or a view on it.

Its easy..please dont cheat..and if you do, dont do it so anybody can see.

Thanks


LAity

[Herx77]

i've seen this with the cushion under the knee, imo it's an unfair advantage to the shooter, i don't carry one to put my gun on because i have a sling fitted, is it to simple to say ; no kneeling on cushions,for resting guns on only;
wear a kneepad if you so wish, level playing field for all then.

No cushions unless for medical reasons.
If this is causing problems remove it at source..no problem..solved.
HERX77 .

[Herx77]

I know of people that have shot at the plate of a already down target and claim the 2 then pull the target up with delight.

If people are slow in front i know of people who jump past to empty lanes.......why, its not a race its not first back gets prize, just chill and get to know the people you are shooting with.
And why do it, is it avoiding windy parts of the course only to come back to the targets when wind has died, or is it to avoid people seeing you miss so that when you card a 59 no one can say well actually i saw you miss 2.

Only a marshall should go out to a faulty target to rectify a problem or a called target, if the marshall needs help with that target then a competitor who has already shot that target should go assist.

And 2 points should only awarded if the target has gone down no matter if the shooter says he saw the pellet hit the middle of the kill.
Ive seen many shots show dead centre of the kill on a relativley easy shot in fact i have seen this happen with the two guys i shot with not long ago, both claimed it must be dodgy target i shot it the target went down, but because we were still not sure the marshall checked the target and as we were the first to shoot this freshly painted target he showed us 2 marks where the pellet hit the side of the kill and bounced into the middle leaving 2 perfect round pellet marks.
They woulod of sworn blind the target was faulty until seeing this so it is something to look for.

I've seen that also,an unshot target that shows a centre spot mark after the shot has been taken and target not gone down.I've also seen the same with the pellet scrap hanging on the centre spot,target also not going down.
Only experience gives you an indication of faulty targets or wishful thinking.

HERX77 .

[nibbley-uk]

I've seen that also,an unshot target that shows a centre spot mark after the shot has been taken and target not gone down.I've also seen the same with the pellet scrap hanging on the centre spot,target also not going down.
Only experience gives you an indication of faulty targets or wishful thinking.

HERX77 .

The thing is Mike i have seen in a UKA comp a shooter in the lane next to me call about 6 targets, now 1 thats fine, 2 you must be unlucky, but 6........

This isnt a whinge about the sport but on a weekly basis i am hearing stories and i just think its time there was a clamp down.
I am passionate about the sport and just a few seem to put a dampner on it for me and others i talk to.
And ithought that if people could air their views than maybe there could be answers.
Dont get me wrong i am competitive as the next person but its not always about getting that 1st trophy as im sure you know Ross.

Also i totaly agree if you see your partner about to take a shot of wrong target or in the wrong possition make it known to them before they take the shot.
We tried this on Ian H whos foot never found the peg only roots on a couple of pegs, so why watching his foot he shot the marker peg instead.... some people you just cant help

[Prone Shooter]

Yes...and no. But to explain my thinking on this I'd have to try and articulate to myself as much as anyone exactly what 'full-blown competition' is. What does it mean in HFT? What is really at stake? Not a great deal in practical terms, is there? I think father/son coaching is completely in the best spirit of what HFT seems to be about - an egalitarian, level-playing-field kind of sport...although if I was the father in the scenario you describe, I'd just as willingly 'coach' the lone junior as my own sprog. But then again (and here I go tying myself into knots), then I'd be 'coaching' two competitors in a 'full blown competition', and as dispiriting as it seems I could picture some people taking exception to that.

Maybe it's just me, but this seems a very interesting topic, more for the views that people have on the ethos and motivation for what is essentially an organised hobby, not a sport.

...Here's another one along the same lines, from Newbury on Sunday. While I was cradling my really big ego as I got a 58 (me, me, look at me!), I saw what looked like a heated - or perhaps more appropriately frank - discussion on one of the pegs where 'the-peg-was-touching-the-tree-therefore-the-tree-was-the-peg'. It seemed straightforward, but someone was adamant that that wasn't the case. I didn't catch it all, but I did wonder in passing; "does it really matter that much?" "is it really that important?"

As I said, I find this one interesting, as much to give a context to my own shooting as to explore other peoples'.

Cheers,

That particular peg caused me some confusion as well. In CSFTA comps the peg would have had to be touched, but I don't know about under UKAHFT rules. I played safe and touched the peg and got the 2 points.

CSFTA changed the rules on pegs on trees a few years ago because the "tree is the peg" scenario was being abused. One target that comes to mind was on a fallen trunk and the position was a difficult forced stander over some brambles, but by moving to the other end of the trunk, the target became an easy, supported prone shot. Not quite cheating but more than a bit of licence with the rules and not in the spirit of the sport. The rule was changed at the next regional meeting

With regards to the targets which are called a kill but don't fall, providing the course has been checked on the morning of the comp and the targets are falling easy, there should be no need to question the shot, especially if the next shooter drops the target.

Hearing a long distance "1" is a problem for me as I also have a hearing problem but more often than not my buddy will hear it or I'll see a strike. If I don't then its a "0"

Bob

[sparky]

That particular peg caused me some confusion as well. In CSFTA comps the peg would have had to be touched, but I don't know about under UKAHFT rules. I played safe and touched the peg and got the 2 points.

We do prefer the object being the peg, as that way it's better to suit all sizes and both left and righ handers

CSFTA changed the rules on pegs on trees a few years ago because the "tree is the peg" scenario was being abused. One target that comes to mind was on a fallen trunk and the position was a difficult forced stander over some brambles, but by moving to the other end of the trunk, the target became an easy, supported prone shot. Not quite cheating but more than a bit of licence with the rules and not in the spirit of the sport. The rule was changed at the next regional meeting

This is the reason we brought in "Standing Only" signs

With regards to the targets which are called a kill but don't fall, providing the course has been checked on the morning of the comp and the targets are falling easy, there should be no need to question the shot, especially if the next shooter drops the target.

Not always the case Bob, As you do get targets that can move, even at the Gathering and the SHS at Basingstoke, some of the targets were being pulled out of the soft ground, so they then are on a tilt and won't fall all the time.



Bob

Targets really need to be 100% secured.

Pete

[figjam]

Coaching to the extent of giving gentle advice is acceptable! Holding up and dealaying an entire course, especially more so if it's session 1 and the targets have to be repainted and checked prior to session 2 beginning!!

I have been round with 'both' types over the years and i have tried being subtle but i have now learned you cannot influence a 'pushy parent' and you certainly cant hurry up a spoiled brat who is having a crap round and blaming his dad/gaurdian.

Cheats hitting fallen plates you can only blame on the shooting partners not paying attention when the shot is being taken, regardless of position or weather 99.9% of the time you will always see movement.

Target failling to go down, get over it unless the string is caught or the targets angle has altered due to terrain or over zelous resetting.......tough swallow the pill and mark as a 1.

moving scopes and settings is just blatant, but i'd expect a bit of discresion? if you hear a turret being altered coming out a bag or the paralax is altered then it's an accident. I'd expect the score card settings are checked and the scope offered to be reset! Big differance to watching someone blatantly and deliberatly altering a scope prior or after a shot is taken. But every circumstance is differant.

But in the world of ever evolving custom parts etc. i have noticed a few that have no yardage settings on them?????????? could be easily 'marked' and altered!

As for power this could be done so easily on rifles etc. but i'd like to think that it's only a small majority and as echoed above there only fooling themselves i'll stick to being a e shot.

Although the beanbag ruling has been done to death on here over the past, you would be stupid to start having an approved 'kit list' all you do is put restrictions and increase shooters costs, maybe from now on 'WE' should all be marshalls and all be more vigilant for the smooth running of all future events.

rgds
Kenny

[badgeroy]

Interesting point here, I am slightly deaf at times in one ear ( don't ask me why it is at times!)On one shoot I did I declared a miss, but my buddy said he heard it hit the plate, now I thought I heard a stirke but also thought it was the guy on the lane next to me who shot simultaneously. Because of the possibility of a miss in my mind I stayed with it and had it put so on my card. But how often could a hit on a neighbouring lane be mistaken for a hit on ones own lane if firing at same time of course?

Why ?

[The Pie Man]

As for power this could be done so easily on rifles etc. but i'd like to think that it's only a small majority and as echoed above there only fooling themselves i'll stick to being a e shot.

I remember watching someone two years ago, shooting very well, two targets down from me, I had finished a particular target and decided to sit and watch the three go about shooting a long range (max) shot.
I was situated in a perfect position to watch the shot and see/hear the target drop, it was very obvious that one out of the group of three was using .177 and the other two were clearly using .22, as the time delay from when I heard the crack to the target falling was significantly and i mean significantly faster, but it seems all three were .177

Again how would we ever know or find the truth? If its seen chrono's are down or not working for what ever reason, then how can you police this.

[sparky]

IAgain how would we ever know or find the truth? If its seen chrono's are down or not working for what ever reason, then how can you police this.

Watch this space we have something that may resolve this for 2008.

Pete

[ross H]

The thing is Mike i have seen in a UKA comp a shooter in the lane next to me call about 6 targets, now 1 thats fine, 2 you must be unlucky, but 6........

This isnt a whinge about the sport but on a weekly basis i am hearing stories and i just think its time there was a clamp down.
I am passionate about the sport and just a few seem to put a dampner on it for me and others i talk to.
And ithought that if people could air their views than maybe there could be answers.
Dont get me wrong i am competitive as the next person but its not always about getting that 1st trophy as im sure you know Ross.

Also i totaly agree if you see your partner about to take a shot of wrong target or in the wrong possition make it known to them before they take the shot.
We tried this on Ian H whos foot never found the peg only roots on a couple of pegs, so why watching his foot he shot the marker peg instead.... some people you just cant help

first sign of madness. calling mike ross

[The Pie Man]

Again No names but i remember a guy turning his power up during a shoot
This time he got caught and was asked to leave, but most times it goes unnoticed.

[blackscale]

As I dont shoot HFT feel free to tell me wind my neck in...

If some juniors father is coaching him round, even if he's infringing some rules surely that does no one any harm at all?

I am assuming he's a novice though rather than in the running for the junior championship

After all youngsters are the future of all the shooting sports

Richard

I might get slated for this but i have to agree!!

Fact is once the kids start to gain a bit of confidence and start hitting more than they miss,
They normally tell their dad they don't want any help!

I think it is something to do with, Once you entrust a kid with a rifle (Albeit under your watchful eye) They Suddenly seem to grow up!! and want to compete on their own terms!!

That is my experience with my kids!

Edit!; Reading the rest of the posts, If the kid is obviously not a beginner atall in a national!...I wouldn't like it1....but would probably be embarrassed to say anything!

As for telling the person shooting, that they might have the wrong Target!!, I did this and he pulled the trigger at the same time plating the RIGHT target!!...I was popular!
XX