Mainspring data thread

[TonyL]

Hi chaps,
Following on from Jim Tyler's excellent and thought provoking thread in this month's Airgun World Technical Airgun Series relating to the merits of longer, narrower gauge mainsprings, we thought a thread listing the specifications / dimensions of numerous mainsprings would provide a useful reference point.

If we can compile enough data for different springs, this thread could then be transferred over to the Useful Tips section, providing a handy reference for future use / comparison.

So, if lots of people could possibly contribute, this would provide a very useful database for various different springs. This would provide the option to experiment and also to match a spring to a gun, once internal dimensional requirements are known.

Details required ( please feel free to include as much information as possible, especially if I've omitted anything), please provide information such as:-

Make of spring, eg V-Mach, Titan, Vortek, Maccari, standard fitment etc.
Length
Pitch
Number of coils
Outside diameter
Inside diameter
Spring rate
Wire diameter
Known fitment applications

Jim, please feel free to edit/alter as desired.....

Thanks in anticipation for all your help/input.

[MattyBoy]

Spring rate?

I know what is is but never seen it quoted on an air rifle mainspring.

To be honest it's the crux. Spring rate is the key to all this tomfoolery

Matty

[bigtoe01]

posted this in the other thread...will place it here also

Titan springs grouped by wire size.

[CODE]

Model # OD ID Wire Coils Length
TS001 21 14.5 3.25 31 280
TS003 20.8 14.73 3.26 34 304
TS009 21.35 14.75 3.3 27 280
TS010 21 14.8 3.1 27 230


TS005 19 13.19 3 32 290
TS006 19 13.3 2.92 39 341
TS007 20 13.8 3.3 30 255
TS008 20 13.8 3.3 34 295
TS011 18.8 12.8 3 31 230


TS002 22.7 15.5 3.65 30 291
TS004 22.62 15.64 3.65 28 252
TS012 22.8 15.6 3.65 41 410

[/CODE]

[TonyL]

Thank you tone. You're a star.

[bigtoe01]

I like this spring..a LOT, if Walther will push LGV spares into the UK I for see this spring being used in many project guns.

Specs are:

236mm long, 3.35mm wire, 20.8mm OD, 14.4mm ID, 3.96mm between coils, 33 coils.

If the rifle you are tuning is optimised this spring will deliver 11fpe in .177 with ease with just 34CC of swept volume and the shot cycle is supreme. Its a soft spring due to the 33 coils but packs a nice punch.

Titan should make a copy of this one

[BTDT]

I think this thread could be even more useful if people post the spring specifications (and where people can obtain one) that suited a particular gun, and put the year, model and calibre of gun in the thread title.

[Phil Russell]

This is my database, compiled as I come across information. As you see, there are some variations.

MAKE MODEL OD mm ID mm WIRE mm LENGTH mm COILS SOURCE
B36 ? B36 18.4 12.2 3.1 310 Versandhaus
AIR ARMS All 21 15 3 270 Ox
Air Arms Tx200 Mk2 20.7 3.24 14.22 200mm excl end compressed 23 coils BBS
Air Arms TX200 Mk1/2 21 (20.75) 3.25 207 / 220 23 active Forum
AIR ARMS TX200 Mk3 21 15 3 225 Forum
AIR ARMS TX200 Mk3 20.8 15 2.9 223 23 Forum
ANSCHUTZ 335 21.4 14.6 3.4 225 Versandhaus
ASI Magnum 20 14 3 230 Ox
ASI Other ASI 20 14 3 230 Ox
ASI Sniper 20 14 3 230 Ox
BAIKAL IJ512 18 12.4 2.8 240 31 Versandhaus
BAIKAL 19 13 3 245 Ox
BSA Airsporter 21 15 3 270 Ox
BSA Airsporter 20 15 3 265 35 Kasu square
BSA Airsporter 20.5 14.2 3.15 250 29 Cobham
BSA Cadet 19.7 13.5 3 185 28 Cobham
BSA Cadet Major 19.7 13.5 3.05 195-200 32 Cobham
BSA Goldstar 21 15 3 270 Ox
BSA Goldstar Kasu square
BSA Lightning 14 3.25 35 Forum
BSA Lightning 20.7 14.3 3.2 255 32 Cobham
BSA Lightning XL 20.8 14.4 3.2 260 33 Forum
BSA Mercury 21 15 3 270 Ox
BSA Mercury Kasu square
BSA Mercury 18.5 12.5 3 300 Versandhaus
BSA Meteor 19 13 3 245 Ox
BSA Meteor Mk1 19 13.1 3 225-235 36 Cobham
BSA Meteor 19 3 254 (10") 35 BBS
BSA Meteor Super 19 13.1 3 225-235 36 Cobham
BSA Model L 20 13.5 3.25 150 21 Cobham
BSA Supersport 21 15 3 270 Ox
BSA Supersport 12.8 3.25 35 Forum
BSA Superstar 21 15 3 270 Ox
BSA "Superstar
12 ft lbs" 20 14 3 230 Ox
BSF S20 pistol 16.2 11.2 2.5 155-160 30 Cobham
CHINESE XS-S2 pistol 16.2 11.2 2.5 123 20 Cobham
CHINESE BAM Military style 18.8 12.7 3.05 240 33 Cobham
DIANA / ORIGINAL 16 15.5 11 2.25 195-200 36 Cobham
DIANA / ORIGINAL 24 18.5 13 2.75 220 30 Cobham
DIANA / ORIGINAL 26 18.8 13.4 2.7 285 Versandhaus
DIANA / ORIGINAL 27 19 13 3 245 Ox
DIANA / ORIGINAL 27 18.8 13.4 2.7 285 Versandhaus
DIANA / ORIGINAL 28 18.8 13.4 2.7 285 Versandhaus
DIANA / ORIGINAL 31 21 14.6 3.2 290 Versandhaus
DIANA / ORIGINAL 34 21 14.6 3.2 290 Versandhaus
DIANA / ORIGINAL 35 21 15 3 270 Ox
DIANA / ORIGINAL 35 21 14.6 3.2 290 Versandhaus
DIANA / ORIGINAL 36 21 14.6 3.2 290 Versandhaus
DIANA / ORIGINAL 38 21 15 3 270 Ox
DIANA / ORIGINAL 38 21 14.6 3.2 290 Versandhaus
DIANA / ORIGINAL 40 21 14.6 3.2 290 Versandhaus
DIANA / ORIGINAL 45 21 15 3 270 Ox
DIANA / ORIGINAL 45 21 14.6 3.2 290 Versandhaus
DIANA / ORIGINAL 48 23 16 3.5 240 Ox
DIANA / ORIGINAL 48 21.3 14.7 3.3 300 Versandhaus
DIANA / ORIGINAL 50 21 15 3 270 Ox
DIANA / ORIGINAL 50 20.75 14.65 3 235 31 Cobham
DIANA / ORIGINAL 50 21 14.6 3.2 290 Versandhaus
DIANA / ORIGINAL 52 23 16 3.5 240 Ox
DIANA / ORIGINAL 52 21.3 14.7 3.3 300 Versandhaus
DIANA / ORIGINAL 54 21.3 14.7 3.3 300 Versandhaus
DIANA / ORIGINAL 25 Not 25D 19 13.4 2.7 240 Versandhaus
DIANA / ORIGINAL 26 TO3 TO4 TO5 20.7 14.7 3 290 Versandhaus
DIANA / ORIGINAL 28 TO3 TO4 TO5 20.7 14.7 3 290 Versandhaus
DIANA / ORIGINAL 350 Magnum 23.8 15.8 365 Titan
DIANA / ORIGINAL 46/300R 20.4 14.2 3.1 295 Versandhaus
DIANA / ORIGINAL 460 Magnum 21 14.6 3.2 290 Versandhaus
DIANA / ORIGINAL 6 pistol outer inner (2) "11.2
7.5" "8
5.4" "1.6
1" "275
145" "62
47" Cobham
DIANA / ORIGINAL G27 19.5 13.2 3.15 220 34 Cobham
DIANA / ORIGINAL G80 19 13 3 245 Ox
DIANA / ORIGINAL G80 19.5 13.2 3.15 220 34 Cobham
DIANA / ORIGINAL Panther 23.8 15.8 365 Titan
DIANA / ORIGINAL Professional 23.8 15.8 365 Titan
DIANA / ORIGINAL SP50 pistol 11.8 8 1.8 155-160 38 Cobham
FALKE Mod 70 21 3 235 measured
FEINWERKBAU 300S (2) 20 14.7 2.65 210 15 Cobham
FEINWERKBAU Sport 21 15 3 320 Ox
FEINWERKBAU Sport 20.9 3.05 320 Forum
FEINWERKBAU Sport 20.7 14.5 3 40.5 Forum
FEINWERKBAU Sport 124 0.58" 0.118" 12.125" 40.5 Forum
FEINWERKBAU Sport 124 0.58" 0.118" 13.625" 40.5 Forum
GAMO Cadet 2000 19.8 13.8 3 230 30 Cobham
GAMO CF 16/20 21 15 3 270 Ox
GAMO CF20 19.6 13.6 3 290 Versandhaus
GAMO CF30 19.6 13.6 3 290 Versandhaus
GAMO Hunter 1250 22.5 15.5 3.5 390 Versandhaus
GAT 12.25 1.9 40.5 160 BBS
Haenel Mod III DRP 21.3 3.2 200.7 .... 28coils, web and measured
HAENEL 302 20.7 14.5 3.1 255 Versandhaus
HAENEL 303 20 13.6 3.2 185 28 Cobham
HAENEL 303 20.7 14.5 3.1 255 Versandhaus
HAENEL 310 21.5 16.5 2.5 170 30 Cobham
HAENEL 303-8 20.7 14.5 3.1 255 Versandhaus
HUNGARIAN "LG 527 outer
inner" "19.8
13.3" "13.8
9.3" "3
2" "265
265" "42
62" Cobham
MARKSMAN skeleton stock 14.9 10.1 2.4 180 38 Cobham
MIDLAND GUN Co. ? 1922 model ? 19.3 13.2 3.05 215 33 Cobham
MILBRO G10 pistol 16.7 13.5 1.6 165 32 Cobham
MILBRO Scout 17.8 13.3 2.25 135 23 Cobham
NORCONIA B25 18.4 12.4 3 280 Versandhaus
NORICA Dragon 18 12 3 320 Versandhaus
NORICA Goldstar 18 12 3 320 Versandhaus
NORICA Krono 20 14 3 263 Versandhaus
NORICA Marvic 18 12 3 320 Versandhaus
NORICA Mod 56 20 14 3 263 Versandhaus
NORICA Quick 18 12 3 320 Versandhaus
NORICA 19 13 3 245 Ox
RELUM "Tornado/LG322
outer
inner" "
20
14.4" "
15
10.2" "
2.5
2.1" "
260
260" "
25
65" Cobham
RELUM 21 15 3 270 Ox
RWS 350 21 14.6 3.18 40 Forum
SLAVIA 630 Versandhaus
SLAVIA 631 Versandhaus
SMK B2 18.8 12.8 3 225 32 Cobham
TELL 100 18.3 12.3 3 225 Versandhaus
TELL 200 18.3 12.3 3 225 Versandhaus
TELL 220 18.3 12.3 3 225 Versandhaus
TELL 300 18.4 12.4 3 280 Versandhaus
TELL 400 18.4 12.4 3 280 Versandhaus
WALTHER "LP53 pistol outer
inner" "18.2
12" "13.2
8.4" "2.5
1.8" "133
130" "25
38" Cobham
WALTHER Competition Ultra LGV 20.8 3.25 32 25mm preload Jim Tyler measurements
WEBLEY All except Eclipse or MK3 20 14 3 230 Ox
WEBLEY Eclipse 23 15 4 260 Ox
WEBLEY Falcon 19 3.25 235 BBS
WEBLEY Hawk Mk2 19 13.1 3 225-235 36 Cobham
WEBLEY Junior pistol 12.5 8.8 1.85 170 34 Cobham
WEBLEY Mk1 pistol 14.4 9.2 2.6x1.7 175 37 Cobham
WEBLEY Mk3 21.5 15 3.25 210 29 Cobham
WEBLEY Omega 20.5 3.2 238mm 32 BBS Forum
WEBLEY Senior pistol 14.4 9.2 2.6x1.7 185 37 Cobham
WEBLEY Sport (Spanish) 19.7 13.7 3 205 28 Cobham
WEBLEY Xocet XS 19.7 13.1 3.3 230 32 Cobham
WEIHRAUCH HW25 16.7 2.5 237 34 Forum
WEIHRAUCH HW30 18.5 12.9 2.8 205 Versandhaus
WEIHRAUCH HW35 23.2 16 3.6 220 27 Cobham
WEIHRAUCH HW35 23 16 3.5 240 Ox
WEIHRAUCH HW35 23 16 3.6 230 Forum
WEIHRAUCH HW35 23 15.8 3.6 240 Versandhaus
WEIHRAUCH HW35E 23 15.8 3.6 240 BBS
WEIHRAUCH HW35 Vixen 20.5 14.6 3.5 220 (worn) Forum
WEIHRAUCH HW45 16.5 2.4 229 32 Forum
WEIHRAUCH HW45 16.7 2.5 237 34 Forum
WEIHRAUCH HW50 20.5 3 250 30 Forum
WEIHRAUCH HW50 21 3 255 Forum
WEIHRAUCH HW50 20.7 14.5 3.1 255 Versandhaus
WEIHRAUCH HW55 21 15 3 270 Ox
WEIHRAUCH HW57 20.7 14.5 3.1 255 Versandhaus
WEIHRAUCH HW77 21 15 3 320 Ox
WEIHRAUCH HW77 20.3 14.3 3.1 290 Versandhaus
WEIHRAUCH HW77 old 20.3 14.3 3 40 ex Jim Tyler
WEIHRAUCH HW77 (old)? 20.5 14.5 3 340 Versandhaus
WEIHRAUCH HW80 23 15 4 260 Ox
WEIHRAUCH HW80 23 3.9 270 32 Forum
WEIHRAUCH HW80 23.4 15.8 3.8 280 Versandhaus
WEIHRAUCH HW85 21 15 3 270 Ox
WEIHRAUCH HW85 19.8 13.6 3.1 270 Versandhaus
WEIHRAUCH HW95 19.6 13.6 3 245 31 Cobham
WEIHRAUCH HW95 19.8 13.6 3.1 270 Versandhaus
WEIHRAUCH HW97 21 15 3 320 Ox
WEIHRAUCH HW97 20.3 14.3 3.1 290 Versandhaus
WEIHRAUCH HW98 19.8 13.6 3.1 270 Versandhaus


Sorry that format corrupted on a few lines, but it may help.

Cheers, Phil

[BTDT]

Spring rate?

I know what is is but never seen it quoted on an air rifle mainspring.

To be honest it's the crux. Spring rate is the key to all this tomfoolery

Matty

The spring rate is important, Matty, but it's only part of the mix.

What's most important is the amount of energy that the spring makes available to the piston (total energy minus energy in preload), the static force (the force on the piston in the 'at rest' position), and the force on the piston at the point of release. For any given spring, all of these will vary according to the piston stroke length and preload length.

[bigtoe01]

Jim, i would just edit it to get the info into the first post maybe...

[BTDT]

Jim, i would just edit it to get the info into the first post maybe...

If the thread grows as I hope, Tony, there could be too much information for that. Let's see how it goes.

Anyone looking for specific information, say on Titan springs, or spring for a particular airgun, can use the 'Search this thread' option to find what they want.

[gunbag]

This is my database, compiled as I come across information. As you see, there are some variations.

MAKE MODEL OD mm ID mm WIRE mm LENGTH mm COILS SOURCE

AIR ARMS All 21 15 3 270 Ox

Fantastic database Phil.

With regard to TX200 Mk3 springs though, the length averages 225mm. Other dimensions are correct.

I think the 270mm relates to Mk1/2 Tx's.

[Phil Russell]

Fantastic database Phil.

With regard to TX200 Mk3 springs though, the length averages 225mm. Other dimensions are correct.

I think the 270mm relates to Mk1/2 Tx's.

Thanks Gunbag ... I will add your info to my database. It just shows that there is variation in sources of information. The Cobham data are from his book and I assume refer to manufacturers' springs; but this is not certain.

Cheers, Phil

[brucegill]

Thanks Gunbag ... I will add your info to my database. It just shows that there is variation in sources of information. The Cobham data are from his book and I assume refer to manufacturers' springs; but this is not certain.

Cheers, Phil

What a great the thread! Well done Phil for your info!!! Must have taken you a while to get that together! Thanks for sharing.

Will ad my stuff when I get a chance.

[Black Beard]

Spring constant is approximately (all dimensions mm and for steel springs):

10^7 * wire diameter^4 / (outside dia-wire dia)^3 / number of coils

to give the newtons per meter spring constant. Change 10^7 to 10^4 to give newtons per mm

so 2mm wire with outside diameter 22mm and 20 active links (ignore ends) is

10 000 000 * 16 / 8000 / 20 = 1000 Newtons per m or 1 newton per mm. Too weak for an air rifle. Most air rifle springs are 5000 to 12000 Newtons per m spring constant.

Thicker wire, lower diameter and less coils = stiffer.

[DoctorBoudreau]

Spring constant is approximately (all dimensions mm and for steel springs):

10^7 * wire diameter^4 / (outside dia-wire dia)^3 / number of coils

to give the newtons per meter spring constant. Change 10^7 to 10^4 to give newtons per mm

so 2mm wire with outside diameter 22mm and 20 active links (ignore ends) is

10 000 000 * 16 / 8000 / 20 = 1000 Newtons per m or 1 newton per mm. Too weak for an air rifle. Most air rifle springs are 5000 to 12000 Newtons per m spring constant.

Thicker wire, lower diameter and less coils = stiffer.

For your formulas that model spring gun behavior...do you need this spring constant or is spring rate needed? Or both?

I have wanted to try this but never dealt with the tools involved. I have read about the shadetree method of putting a bathroom or other scale down on a surface or press and using that to measure the force.

But I'm reading about tools like these. Anybody use one? What pressure/force scale or rating would be appropriate for the springs inside a springer (a TX200 in this case). Seems like one of these in a vise or drill press (chuck a guide of some sort in the press and slip the spring over it) would do the trick.

http://iyrs.org/Portals/0/Uploads/Im...log2%20139.jpg
http://iyrs.org/Portals/0/Uploads/Im...log2%20141.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVsrky0cpDs