Top shooters dropping down the pecking order

[Bellycrawler]

As with anything, once you have climbed the mountain & seen the views the rest is only downhill.

[ChrisC]

I would say optimum age to be 30 as you've had years to gain some experience but not quite on the slippery slope health wise. I shot FT to AA grade and around 2005 (ish) switched to HFT, in 2008 i was UKAHFT Champion so that would have made me 42 and in the years after was NEFTA HFT champ(multiple times), mids champ, Gathering champ 2014 and 2021, multiple top 10 finishes in the UKAHFT series, multiple top 10 Worlds positions (3 times England team) and British open Champ 2021. Around 54 i was diagnosed with high blood pressure, high cholesterol and pre diabetes which all affected my eyesight, even more so with adjusting medication. I'm now 56 and am currently top 10 UK with 2 rounds to go and finished 5th last weekend at the worlds so age isn't really slowing down my scores.

The key to comp longevity IMHO is getting lots of practice and even more importantly getting a good barrel and matching it to a good batch of pellet. I've seen many different shooters at the top of the tree and the equation below about sums it up.

mechanically sound rifle=good barrel=good pellet batch=practice=confidence=more targets hit.

[Herx77]

mechanically sound rifle=good barrel=good pellet batch=practice=confidence=more targets hit.[/QUOTE]
I would agree with chris completely, but when range finding goes adrift as with age, it becomes a good social day out, and no matter how much practice it doesn't really fully come back.
Mechanically sound rifle, + good consistent ranging ability= all the above.
At 75 I really struggle; but scores go up if the range is known, maybe bench rest?
HERX77

[transporter]

The standard of shooting was a lot better in the 80's.
There was no high powered sights and only spring powered rifles (until the late 80's when pcp started too appear).and they still cleared a course with a well tuned HW 77 and anything from a 4x40 to a 3-9x40 scope,the most popular was the tasco AG 2-7x32 AO with a duplex ret .
So it goes to show you don't need the high power scopes or the expensive pcp to compete .

[Phil Russell]

A fascinating set of comments, thank you. Clearly some people are still at the top of their game, and that is very impressive but I do wonder what will happen as the years go by. I tend to think that everyone is on their own 'performance declining curve' but that the curve is different for different people. Many are acknowledging their decline and Herx 77 comments are particularly apt; I guess I am only a few months behind you in the age stakes.
I do not, however, think that the standard of shooting was better in the 80s. Yes, technology has improved but you have to take into account the fact that target and course specifications have also changed. I wonder how many people would not agree that a UKAHFT course is now more difficult due to smaller kill zones etc than it was 20 years ago? I do not know about FT. Harder courses with smaller kill zones and terrible but impressive use of 'range traps' could well be affecting the scores of older competitors as their eyesight begins to play tricks on them.
Grow old gracefully is clearly the thing to do.
Cheers, Phil

[TonyL]

The standard of shooting was a lot better in the 80's.
There was no high powered sights and only spring powered rifles (until the late 80's when pcp started too appear).and they still cleared a course with a well tuned HW 77 and anything from a 4x40 to a 3-9x40 scope,the most popular was the tasco AG 2-7x32 AO with a duplex ret .
So it goes to show you don't need the high power scopes or the expensive pcp to compete .

I do not, however, think that the standard of shooting was better in the 80s. Yes, technology has improved but you have to take into account the fact that target and course specifications have also changed. I wonder how many people would not agree that a UKAHFT course is now more difficult due to smaller kill zones etc than it was 20 years ago? I do not know about FT. Harder courses with smaller kill zones and terrible but impressive use of 'range traps' could well be affecting the scores of older competitors as their eyesight begins to play tricks on them.
Grow old gracefully is clearly the thing to do.
Cheers, Phil

Sorry, Ray. You're talking twaddle.

Yes, I must say, I was a better shot ears ago. That's easy for me to say. And they're just words and taken on trust. But I can't substantiate that claim. However, I KNOW I was a better shot back then as I had the opportunity to shoot and practice more often. Sometimes, these days, weeks can go by between sessions. And I mostly shoot seated now whereas, years ago, I practised from different positions. I am, however, as you know, a fan of The Boinger and low mag scopes.

I agree with Phil about the specifications of modern courses - distances, range traps, kill zone size etc.

[transporter]

Sorry, Ray. You're talking twaddle.

Yes, I must say, I was a better shot ears ago. That's easy for me to say. And they're just words and taken on trust. But I can't substantiate that claim. However, I KNOW I was a better shot back then as I had the opportunity to shoot and practice more often. Sometimes, these days, weeks can go by between sessions. And I mostly shoot seated now whereas, years ago, I practised from different positions. I am, however, as you know, a fan of The Boinger and low mag scopes.

I agree with Phil about the specifications of modern courses - distances, range traps, kill zone size etc.

Ok ,your right

[Muskett]

Loads of good comments.

Most shooting practices have changed which reflect the equipment being used and the progress in that equipment, all reflected in the targets and course of fire. A lot of equipment has been made to overcome the type of courses of fire encountered. Basically it's an arms race

Was marksmanship better in the 1970/80s? The answer is that it was as highly competitive and the courses of fire and equipment used were different.

In my teens I shot .22LR 25m at a County level. It was all about heart rate control.
In my 20s I shot Service rifle, firstly with iron sights (SLR) and later with optics (SA80/Susat). A load of handgun too. Service Rifle then age did matter, not only for eyesight but also straight forward fitness. Advance to contact. running between target encounters, and timed target exposures, with 50% of targets being from the standing positing, meant youth counted as much as experience. They made the targets smaller with the introduction of optics, but range/drop, wind, and light, all took experience to counter. The rest was how to control any huffing and puffing, in a pressure induced environment.

When targets get too small then heart rate matters. A lot of target shooting has reverted to small targets to make it all the more difficult, so heart rate is a big one; the rest is a steady position and correct let off. The pin point accuracy demanded is such that equipment has to be exceedingly precise too, and has given real progress in rifle accuracy; todays rifles are more accurate and consistent than yesteryear. However, a less accurate rifle means a perfect shot needs a bigger target, so as much is expected of the shooter as a more accurate rifle and smaller target. Basically to get a "possible" with either is just as hard. However, shoot too small a target with a rifle that doesn't match the size of target and scores will fall (Theory of the Group). Whatever, targets size they need to be achievable and not left to luck; a perfect shot will get a bull.

Do people want to shoot actively or passively styled shooting? Inactive pure target or physical more practical? Nothing physical, and no real time limits, favours the old, if they can do "stable".

One bug bear I have is Range Estimation. I just don't understand why have a scope system range finder when progress is lasers. Scope rangefinding takes yonks and a very dependent on equipment, plus getting familiar with it all in varying light conditions. Its still machine/equipment dependent. It is doable but outmoded. True skill would be no rangefinding aid bar no:1 eyeballs. But that can't work with the tiny targets that are presently being used.
Snipers range find with the use of optics, laser rangefinders, maps, and GPS. Hunters keep ranges short, are often familiar with their ground, and can use lasers.
Most target shooting is contrived. Made to suit a competition level playing field. I just say be careful that it doesn't lose its fun factor, or worse any real human input/skill.

[gsxrman]

Courses and FT/HFT have to change rules to challenge the shooter and not the kit.
For instance a rifle like Air Arms 400 will produce half inch groups at 45 yards. People will pay thousands for a top rifle and scope to shave 1-2mm off that group size.
At the end of the day both kits are well capable of clearing a course at any level.
Its the shooter that needs challenging. Like I have said many times, there is a lot of people who can shoot pellet on pellet on practice range.
Put them on a course where they have to judge the range, the angle, the temperature and the wind and they miss a 40mm kill zone with rifle capable of 10mm groups.
ChrisC is one of the best HFT shooters out there, but HE makes the difference and not his kit. Age and eyesight are definitely factors though in shooting ability, and in many other disciplines.
Shooting, especially FT/HFT is an age friendly sport, it is not overly competitive i.e. shear numbers just aren't there, unlike Golf, Football or even Boxing/Martial arts.
Its great to hear people still enjoy this hobby/sport into their 80s, even if not at a high competitive level, just for pure enjoyment purposes. Keep going until you cant.

[Shed tuner]

As with anything, once you have climbed the mountain & seen the views the rest is only downhill.

summs it up for me.. I just lost the drive to put in the practice. Chris's comments I entirely agree with - but the mental side is what drives that practice, and with a young family and other comitments, I just lost the dedication needed to stay at a high level. Or, to put it another way, I chose to prioritse other things (my kids / family), and I don't regret that in the slightest.

For me, mid 30s. But I think if you look after your health, and maintain focus / dedication & therefore practive, that could easily stretch out to 50 years of age.

[gsxrman]

A lot of good comments. Health can be a major factor, age is just a number, for me its all about your mental state.
The willingness to drive on, the motivation to still compete even with complexities trying to hold you back.
This basically means to compete you have to practice more and train harder.
Lots don't though and that is our demise. ChrisC shoots in NEFTA which is littered with World and European Champions and is very competitive.
I found though that (being based in Teesside) the travelling was a royal pain. Hull for instance and Anston were two hour drives away for us to shoot 30 pellets in a field at targets mounted to scaffolding (terrible) or a very dusty windy quarry.
Someone with Chris's dedication would travel and compete every week and strive to be the best at each event. I remember a junior shooter from Sedgefield who became world Champ would turn up every week to shoot a full FT course, but if it wasn't set up at his club his dad drove him to Redfern's or similar so he could shoot a full course. Dedication. We decided to only compete at 3 or 4 clubs we enjoyed visiting. My only motivation then became enjoyment of the sport and therefore stopped practicing as much and then stopped competing. Life, family and other hobbies take over the time previously dedicated.
At 52 I still shoot well. All the years of practice and knowledge doesn't just disappear. I can still score 18-19 on the sillies and hit 35mm (home made) target, free standing with a Rimfire at 75 yards.

[ChrisC]

A lot of good comments. Health can be a major factor, age is just a number, for me its all about your mental state.
The willingness to drive on, the motivation to still compete even with complexities trying to hold you back.
This basically means to compete you have to practice more and train harder.
Lots don't though and that is our demise. ChrisC shoots in NEFTA which is littered with World and European Champions and is very competitive.
I found though that (being based in Teesside) the travelling was a royal pain. Hull for instance and Anston were two hour drives away for us to shoot 30 pellets in a field at targets mounted to scaffolding (terrible) or a very dusty windy quarry.
Someone with Chris's dedication would travel and compete every week and strive to be the best at each event. I remember a junior shooter from Sedgefield who became world Champ would turn up every week to shoot a full FT course, but if it wasn't set up at his club his dad drove him to Redfern's or similar so he could shoot a full course. Dedication. We decided to only compete at 3 or 4 clubs we enjoyed visiting. My only motivation then became enjoyment of the sport and therefore stopped practicing as much and then stopped competing. Life, family and other hobbies take over the time previously dedicated.
At 52 I still shoot well. All the years of practice and knowledge doesn't just disappear. I can still score 18-19 on the sillies and hit 35mm (home made) target, free standing with a Rimfire at 75 yards.

Yep, i try to explain it to new shooters wanting to improve comp scores. Shooting on the plinking range you learn x2, shoot on a course you learn again x5, travel to another club and shoot their ground and learn x10

[Herx77]

As with anything, once you have climbed the mountain & seen the views the rest is only downhill.

Some times its not so good having been relatively successful and have a memory to recall past experiences and successes; but although still doing the same things and with some confidence the same achievements just continue drifting away!
b****r!

HERX77