The Lowest Ebb of Webley

[look no hands]

Important to note that the current owners of the Webley name are not the decision-makers who decided to close the English factory and get the products made abroad.

I may be wrong, but I have a feeling it was AGS who originally bought Webley?

[Muskett]

A bit like the NHS, it was probably the time for any engineering company to get out of Victorian buildings. Modern CAD driven CNC machining does the donkey work today, and hand finishing is the expensive bit.

[Powderfinger]

I was not aware that the old Webley from Birmingham had closed their own factory and offshored production to Turkey. Is this correct? But, why have the new owners not re-commenced production in the UK and followed Air Arms example by producing excellent UK made air rifles? I think there are few on this site who would wish to buy a Turkish air rifle but we would have confidence in a leading British brand, manufacturing in the UK.
Rgds
A

The current owners of Webley would have to buy new machinery, rent or buy a unit to house it in and (most difficult of all) find staff to build these rifles. The staff who used to build them were long gone.
Making guns in Britain not an insurmountable problem: Air Arms, BSA and Daystate manufacture in Britain. Westley Richards have an engineering business in a modern annex to their venerable main building.
But after a factory has been shut down and the staff gone, it must be hellishly expensive to start again. And the contracts signed with the Turkish manufacturers might have precluded "onshoring".
Webley was not in a Victorian building but on a relatively modern trading estate before closure.

[look no hands]

The current owners of Webley would have to buy new machinery, rent or buy a unit to house it in and (most difficult of all) find staff to build these rifles. The staff who used to build them were long gone.
Making guns in Britain not an insurmountable problem: Air Arms, BSA and Daystate manufacture in Britain. Westley Richards have an engineering business in a modern annex to their venerable main building.
But after a factory has been shut down and the staff gone, it must be hellishly expensive to start again. And the contracts signed with the Turkish manufacturers might have precluded "onshoring".
Webley was not in a Victorian building but on a relatively modern trading estate before closure.

It's a shame they couldn't go in with Air Arms, AA could then reproduce the Longbow with glided internals, AA would then have their break barrel that everyone wants

[Hsing-ee]

It's a shame they couldn't go in with Air Arms, AA could then reproduce the Longbow with glided internals, AA would then have their break barrel that everyone wants

Genius idea Pete.

[Zomboid]

Fascinating and distracting read.

I grew up using BSAs. A Meteor I destroyed, A Mercury which we won and in hindsight was already worn out - now refurbished and shooting beautifully. And a 635 Magnum which I also won. Also now refurbished and shooting beautifully.

Despite always wanting a Weihrauch (and then eventually buying a lot of them) I have always had a hankering for an Omega. I know about the trigger but it always looked like a classy British sporting rifle.

Such a shame the way it didn't work out for them. Especially as they had a tie up with Venom.

And that .357 magnum. Genuine thing of beauty.

[look no hands]

Genius idea Pete.

I do try

[abellringer]

So many interesting posts, nice to see the patriotism still being shown. I was at the Park Lane site, which was actually in West Browwich not Birmingham, but in order to keep the Birmingham name and benefits, the firm had a side gate installed on to the road that ran alongside the factory but was still classed as ''Birmingham''. Sadly from my experience there, the designers were out of their depth, they did make some interesting rifles, as sold in the auction that had lots of one off's and experimental items. As was usual at the time and mentioned in here, lack of long term investment was a killer; sadly today we succumb to the great gods ACCOUNTANTS whose only mantra is '' profit now''. I was lucky enough to try some stuff that close to the German rifles, but ''the cost''. I have to say I don't know that revolver, but it looks rather tasty. I did get to shoot lots of stuff though including the Fosberry revolver, I still have a manual that was issued to a serving person. Upstairs at the Park lane site behind the offices was a corridor which had dozens of historical items from chains, manacles etc to current guns; on there was a pair of Fosberry's with a plaque saying these were found alongside the body of ?????????????? a famous general's body killed in a battle with indians. MMmmmmmm??
Again sadly when ''figures went low'' this stuff was sold off, as were items from the design office, many of which I was able to buy before they were shipped off to Weller & Dufty.
The park Lane site was closed and products split to several sites; before more closures and air production went to Turkey. That said the Axsor was Swedish designed and in its era wasn't that bad.
On a completely different subject, not many will remember that at Park Lane, Webley also made in house; fishing rods. The raw parts were bought and several rods were made in a small ''cell'' within the factory; reels and other equipment were bought in, badged as Webley, again I still have glossy brochures for them. Given some 10 years there in very transitional times I have loads of specific memories.
The most major and catastrophic by miles, was when I started there I had zero knowledge of air history, I was just good at repairing stuff. So to make space for new parts ranges for the world changing Hawk MKI. I was tasked with removing and destroying ALL THE SERVICE MKII STOCK. Cylinders were crushed in a press, barrels bent in a press, stocks cut up for use on .22 pistols. Yes guys I'm the UTTER TOTAL PLONKER that did so much damage to our history. I did redeem myself with the MKIII saving as much as possible whilst staying within the law; the one line I never crossed nor never will.
Please don't hate me, ignorance is no excuse, but I was, and just did as I was told.

[laverdabru]

Well, thank you for your efforts preserving the Mk 3 history, I guess a lot of this info made it's way into the Thrale book. I inherited my love of Webleys from my older brother, who gave me his tinplate Junior when he upgraded to a Mk 1.

[Hsing-ee]

The most major and catastrophic by miles, was when I started there I had zero knowledge of air history, I was just good at repairing stuff. So to make space for new parts ranges for the world changing Hawk MKI. I was tasked with removing and destroying ALL THE SERVICE MKII STOCK. Cylinders were crushed in a press, barrels bent in a press, stocks cut up for use on .22 pistols. Yes guys I'm the UTTER TOTAL PLONKER that did so much damage to our history. I did redeem myself with the MKIII saving as much as possible whilst staying within the law; the one line I never crossed nor never will.
Please don't hate me, ignorance is no excuse, but I was, and just did as I was told.

Not your fault. There are blokes that had to cut up the airframes of the TRS2 supersonic nuclear bomber, one of the best aircraft ever built in Britain, discarded because of costs and politics...

[TonyL]

So many interesting posts, nice to see the patriotism still being shown. I was at the Park Lane site, which was actually in West Browwich not Birmingham, but in order to keep the Birmingham name and benefits, the firm had a side gate installed on to the road that ran alongside the factory but was still classed as ''Birmingham''. Sadly from my experience there, the designers were out of their depth, they did make some interesting rifles, as sold in the auction that had lots of one off's and experimental items. As was usual at the time and mentioned in here, lack of long term investment was a killer; sadly today we succumb to the great gods ACCOUNTANTS whose only mantra is '' profit now''. I was lucky enough to try some stuff that close to the German rifles, but ''the cost''. I have to say I don't know that revolver, but it looks rather tasty. I did get to shoot lots of stuff though including the Fosberry revolver, I still have a manual that was issued to a serving person. Upstairs at the Park lane site behind the offices was a corridor which had dozens of historical items from chains, manacles etc to current guns; on there was a pair of Fosberry's with a plaque saying these were found alongside the body of ?????????????? a famous general's body killed in a battle with indians. MMmmmmmm??
Again sadly when ''figures went low'' this stuff was sold off, as were items from the design office, many of which I was able to buy before they were shipped off to Weller & Dufty.
The park Lane site was closed and products split to several sites; before more closures and air production went to Turkey. That said the Axsor was Swedish designed and in its era wasn't that bad.
On a completely different subject, not many will remember that at Park Lane, Webley also made in house; fishing rods. The raw parts were bought and several rods were made in a small ''cell'' within the factory; reels and other equipment were bought in, badged as Webley, again I still have glossy brochures for them. Given some 10 years there in very transitional times I have loads of specific memories.
The most major and catastrophic by miles, was when I started there I had zero knowledge of air history, I was just good at repairing stuff. So to make space for new parts ranges for the world changing Hawk MKI. I was tasked with removing and destroying ALL THE SERVICE MKII STOCK. Cylinders were crushed in a press, barrels bent in a press, stocks cut up for use on .22 pistols. Yes guys I'm the UTTER TOTAL PLONKER that did so much damage to our history. I did redeem myself with the MKIII saving as much as possible whilst staying within the law; the one line I never crossed nor never will.
Please don't hate me, ignorance is no excuse, but I was, and just did as I was told.

Again, thank you for this insight. And please don't you be going beating yourself up, you were only doing as told.

[andrewM]

This is all very interesting. Accountants - and many others who should know better - want the fastest and highest return for the least investment.

Anyway, who actually closed down the Webley factory? Who offshored to Turkey?

The point, I think, is that Webley is an iconic British brand known to shooters worldwide, defence ministries and especially in the UK. I bought my first air rifle and then the next because these had the Webley name on it. Now Webley is manufactured in Turkey. Were I the owner of this brand, I would hang my head in shame. Who would have bought an Austin Healey, Jaguar or Rolls were these made in Turkey? Ok, there might or might not be a contract signed with the manufacturer/Turkish Govt but what about the research and development function? Where is this carried out and by whom? We have some world-beating air rifle technicians in this county - quite a few of them on the BBS. It is not beyond the abilities of Brits to come up with new designs - in pcp and springer format. These could be made here. If there is an overseas contract with Turkey, who signed this and when does it expire? When was it last renewed? Who owns the Turkish plant or is it simply used as a production facility because the production costs are low?

If AA and others can produce here, then Webley could and it is still a brand of substance with far longer history than many of the new producers. Few here would buy a Webley made in Turkey but we would were it made here.

Rgds
A

[Troubledshooter]

In relation to another thread currently running, Hatsan had no interest in producing PCP's, so Webley had a brief tie up with Evanix who produced several Webley badged rifles.

[junglie]

So many interesting posts, nice to see the patriotism still being shown. I was at the Park Lane site, which was actually in West Browwich not Birmingham, but in order to keep the Birmingham name and benefits, the firm had a side gate installed on to the road that ran alongside the factory but was still classed as ''Birmingham''. Sadly from my experience there, the designers were out of their depth, they did make some interesting rifles, as sold in the auction that had lots of one off's and experimental items. As was usual at the time and mentioned in here, lack of long term investment was a killer; sadly today we succumb to the great gods ACCOUNTANTS whose only mantra is '' profit now''. I was lucky enough to try some stuff that close to the German rifles, but ''the cost''. I have to say I don't know that revolver, but it looks rather tasty. I did get to shoot lots of stuff though including the Fosberry revolver, I still have a manual that was issued to a serving person. Upstairs at the Park lane site behind the offices was a corridor which had dozens of historical items from chains, manacles etc to current guns; on there was a pair of Fosberry's with a plaque saying these were found alongside the body of ?????????????? a famous general's body killed in a battle with indians. MMmmmmmm??
Again sadly when ''figures went low'' this stuff was sold off, as were items from the design office, many of which I was able to buy before they were shipped off to Weller & Dufty.
The park Lane site was closed and products split to several sites; before more closures and air production went to Turkey. That said the Axsor was Swedish designed and in its era wasn't that bad.
On a completely different subject, not many will remember that at Park Lane, Webley also made in house; fishing rods. The raw parts were bought and several rods were made in a small ''cell'' within the factory; reels and other equipment were bought in, badged as Webley, again I still have glossy brochures for them. Given some 10 years there in very transitional times I have loads of specific memories.
The most major and catastrophic by miles, was when I started there I had zero knowledge of air history, I was just good at repairing stuff. So to make space for new parts ranges for the world changing Hawk MKI. I was tasked with removing and destroying ALL THE SERVICE MKII STOCK. Cylinders were crushed in a press, barrels bent in a press, stocks cut up for use on .22 pistols. Yes guys I'm the UTTER TOTAL PLONKER that did so much damage to our history. I did redeem myself with the MKIII saving as much as possible whilst staying within the law; the one line I never crossed nor never will.
Please don't hate me, ignorance is no excuse, but I was, and just did as I was told.

Shame you didn't offer them a few quid for scrap value & stash them somewhere that would be a good pension booster now....

[ToniD]

Not your fault. There are blokes that had to cut up the airframes of the TRS2 supersonic nuclear bomber, one of the best aircraft ever built in Britain, discarded because of costs and politics...

Wasn't it the TSR2?