HW50 the original version. Spring option

[TonyL]

Excellent. Cheers, Mick.

[TonyL]

Synthetic, Tone.

UKNeil gave me all the old springs and guides he'd removed from guns in order to fit VMach kits in them when he retired as a VMach fitter.

Quick question, Mick......From your findings so far, would you say that the sizing of the HW synthetic guides is pretty consistent? What would the usual OD of the guide be? Does it differ between the 30mm, 26mm and the 25mm rifles?

Just thinking ahead to if I have to source a different spring for the '35 and the '50 when I finally get to work on it. I don't have a lathe so can't make my own guides and quite like the standard HW synthetic ones anyway.......

[T 20]

Quick question, Mick......From your findings so far, would you say that the sizing of the HW synthetic guides is pretty consistent? What would the usual OD of the guide be? Does it differ between the 30mm, 26mm and the 25mm rifles?

Weirdly, Tone, I'd never looked until you asked.

The original Weihrauch steel Spring guide was made from 14mm OD, 10mm ID seamless tube, these were made the same seamless tube that Weihrauch still use to make the underlevers on the HW77 and HW97 :-

image.jpg

Then Weihrauch changed to using a two piece assembly with a nylon guide fitted into a steel base washer, from what I have to hand the 25mm HW30 has a different sized nylon (13mm) and washer to the 26/30mm guns.
The HW30 parts are not interchangeable with the 26/30mm parts.

image.jpg

As far as the 26mm and 30mm cylinders go the base washers and nylons are all interchangeable but from what I have here they're all about the same size nylons at 14mm.

image.jpg


I only tend to use these genuine Weihrauch guides on springs with an ID slightly less than 14mm by machining them down to fit the chosen Spring.

To fit a Weihrach guide to the HW50 I've just built up I machined a 26mm base washer down to 25mm and then selected the best fitting nylon inside the 20mm OD Spring.
If I build a gun with a Spring with a larger ID than 14mm I normally end up machining a stainless steel Spring guide.

[TonyL]

Absolutely brilliant, Mick. And a big thank you for taking the time to compare and explain.

Interestingly, when I'd looked on the Mainspring Data Thread, it was hinting to me that the tube portion of the guide might be the same for the 26 and 30mm rifles and your observations confirm this.

Thank you.

[evert]

As far as the 26mm and 30mm cylinders go the base washers and nylons are all interchangeable but from what I have here they're all about the same size nylons at 14mm.

In my experiece they are around 13.7mm and slightly tapered.
They can be fit to some springs like Maccaris E33650.
I put one of them in my 1987/88 HW85 with steel guide and it fit very tights in the spring and works very well.
For HWs recent OEM springs I make oversize guides at around 14.2mm.

[TonyL]

Good information, evert. Thank you.

[T 20]

So now as well as the Titan 7 we have another great contender for springing a HW50/55 with the Welsh Willy Dagda spring:-

Try one of welsh willys new HP Dagda springs, might well be close to your needs , may not be on his site yet ??? but are available , you'd have to talk to him, didn't realise you were in Oslo

Dimensions are as follows
34.5 coils
280 mm length
Wire Gauge 3.00 mm
O/D 19.60 +/- mm
I/D 13.6 mm

Both these springs are dimensionally correct for piston fit and should also allow the use of a slimed down HW nylon spring guide.

[TonyL]

So now as well as the Titan 7 we have another great contender for springing a HW50/55 with the Welsh Willy Dagda spring:-

Both these springs are dimensionally correct for piston fit and should also allow the use of a slimed down HW nylon spring guide.

Once I'd seen the dimensions for the WW spring, and going by the excellent information you had already provided re the 50's vital stats, I'd thought the very same thing. Thank you for confirming.

Hoping to make a start on my 50 soon.

[TonyL]

Do you think that the Protek Supplies' junior rifle spring could be a viable option then, Mick? :-

Taken from Protek's Mainspring page:-

http://www.proteksupplies.co.uk/mainsprings.html

14mm ID.

And, in terms of slimming down a HW guide for those without a lathe, any suggestions? Guessing clamping it in a vice and wrapping emery around and doing by hand would be too hit and miss? And, ideally, top hat still required.

[T 20]

Do you think that the Protek Supplies' junior rifle spring could be a viable option then, Mick? :-



14mm ID.

And, in terms of slimming down a HW guide for those without a lathe, any suggestions? Guessing clamping it in a vice and wrapping emery around and doing by hand would be too hit and miss? And, ideally, top hat still required.

On paper, that would seem to be a perfect replacement for my longstroked HW50 mainspring, size wise, the only question would be is it an equivalent spring rate to the Titan I'm presently using ?

Finding a spring the right size is only half the battle, we need to find a spring the right size with an equivalent spring rate to the original Weihrauch spring.

[T 20]

Hoping to make a start on my 50 soon.

Pop your piston and a TX seal in the post to me and I'll longstroke it for you if you want, Tone.




All the best Mick

[TonyL]

On paper, that would seem to be a perfect replacement for my longstroked HW50 mainspring, size wise, the only question would be is it an equivalent spring rate to the Titan I'm presently using ?

Finding a spring the right size is only half the battle, we need to find a spring the right size with an equivalent spring rate to the original Weihrauch spring.

Understood, Mick. I'll see what presents itself when I strip it. From memory (and just a few shots when I first got it), I'm not expecting there to be anything untoward. Seem to remember it was just a bit twangy. Which isn't really an issue. But, like most tinkerers, once you've de-twanged a few, the twang annoys, doesn't it? So I'm only expecting to have to de-twang, service and fit the Rekord trigger that I bought from Paul, Mach 1.5, for it many moons ago. If the original spring is okay (guessing it will be the original one in there), I'll re-use that. But that'll then dictate the need for properly fitting guides. Always an issue with no lathe......

[TonyL]

Pop your piston and a TX seal in the post to me and I'll longstroke it for you if you want, Tone.

All the best Mick

Awwww, thank you, Mick. What a wonderful and generous offer. You're a star. But I think I'd have to politely decline as I'd like to keep it pretty much standard. Like you, I have lots of other "full power" sub-12 rifles, including some lighter weight ones. I know it would be nice to have this demure little lightweight producing more power, but I'll be more than happy with it producing medium-ish power. Utter smoothness and pleasure of use is the aim with this. If it ends up 8.5-9 and running super-sweet, that'll do me.

Thank you once again.

[T 20]

Awwww, thank you, Mick. What a wonderful and generous offer. You're a star. But I think I'd have to politely decline as I'd like to keep it pretty much standard. Like you, I have lots of other "full power" sub-12 rifles, including some lighter weight ones. I know it would be nice to have this demure little lightweight producing more power, but I'll be more than happy with it producing medium-ish power. Utter smoothness and pleasure of use is the aim with this. If it ends up 8.5-9 and running super-sweet, that'll do me.

Thank you once again.

That's understandable, Tone.

I have a couple of completely standard HW50's as they're too nice to mess with, my other 3 HW50's were bought as incomplete guns so I didn't feel any guilt in building them up as I pleased in order to bring them back from the dead.


All the best Mick

[TonyL]

Ah, thank you for your understanding, Mick. Yep, it is a very nice example and, seemingly, previously unmessed with. Hoping to make a start soon. I'll have a few shots with it first prior to stripping so I know what I'm wanting to achieve. Pretty sure I remember it twanging a little and I'll be fitting the Rekord. I'll also run it over the chrono to see what it's doing.