Any bash attendees got a Lightning CLX Walnut they can bring along please.

[oldskoolzzz]

The springers don't dictate such a rapidly changing selection as offered by the PCPs and might seem stagnant. But why fix what ain't broke? I genuinely feel that the HWs offer such an excellent proposition as regards performance and quality vs price.

There's not much more I'd need a springer to do than what they can do now. Although I'd still love to see a nice, slick modern-day quality sidelever that is easy & safe to load whilst delivering genuine accuracy.

Unfortunately I do feel things need to be fixed as some are actually broke

How many springers are genuinely super sweet out the box?

So many flaws on many levels but I don’t want to go Uber negative, just feel in all honesty the springer market is actually quite limited when you think about exactly what is on offer.

What worries me more is the consensus that if you want a very decent springer the advice seems to be buy something that’s older probably a few decades older or something that’s been super fandango tuned

Just a shame modern springers IMHO seem to be somewhat lacking but obviously a sign of the times perhaps.

A modern side lever sounds good though Tone

[TonyL]

To me, the quality of the modern HW springer seems good and the ones that I've shot have performed nicely. I do accept that some 30s and 99s will need the cocking lever mods doing, though.

I know many say that the earlier barrel weight 95s are the ones to have (luckily, I have two of these plus a 2012 one) and that the 25mm 77s shot slightly more sweetly and are more sought after.

Maybe, just maybe, if HW were to go back to a 25mm bore on the 77/97 (or even go further with a 24mm bore), especially now that many US shooters value firing cycle quality over power, they could unleash it as a new / heavily revised model, boosting sales further. If they were to go 24mm, even people like me with too many already would be queuing up for them.....

[evert]

Maybe, just maybe, if HW were to go back to a 25mm bore on the 77/97 (or even go further with a 24mm bore), especially now that many US shooters value firing cycle quality over power, they could unleash it as a new / heavily revised model, boosting sales further. If they were to go 24mm, even people like me with too many already would be queuing up for them.....

If they cared, 25mm would be realistic, as they are still making the 25mm HW30 and probably still have the drawings for the 25mm internals.
24mm would never happen as it needs a totally new seal.
But they probably dont care as long as the 26mm guns sell.

[oldskoolzzz]

To me, the quality of the modern HW springer seems good and the ones that I've shot have performed nicely. I do accept that some 30s and 99s will need the cocking lever mods doing, though.

I know many say that the earlier barrel weight 95s are the ones to have (luckily, I have two of these plus a 2012 one) and that the 25mm 77s shot slightly more sweetly and are more sought after.

Maybe, just maybe, if HW were to go back to a 25mm bore on the 77/97 (or even go further with a 24mm bore), especially now that many US shooters value firing cycle quality over power, they could unleash it as a new / heavily revised model, boosting sales further. If they were to go 24mm, even people like me with too many already would be queuing up for them.....

Don’t get me wrong Tone, I’m not trying to be negative, forums are full of the bad especially when it comes to issues.

What I’m trying to say is the BSA lightning CLX peeked my interest because it’s something that has so much potential but from what I gather still falls very short.

This is what annoys me as the current springer market for really decent dare I say top end stuff is thus:

Want a decent break barrel go Weihrauch

Want a decent undervlever go Weihrauch or Air Arms.

Hence my comments the springer market is quite limited in reality.

Gone are the days of the other bigger players, Feinwerkbau, Walther, Anschutz etc

As I said sign of the times perhaps and I can’t really fault BSA for actually trying even if it’s not quite there yet.

Who knows a clx mk2 or mk3 might eventually get close

[TonyL]

I hear where you're coming from, Nick. And it is, indeed, a shame that the choice has become so limited these days for people wanting a quality product.

[look no hands]

To me, the quality of the modern HW springer seems good and the ones that I've shot have performed nicely. I do accept that some 30s and 99s will need the cocking lever mods doing, though.

I know many say that the earlier barrel weight 95s are the ones to have (luckily, I have two of these plus a 2012 one) and that the 25mm 77s shot slightly more sweetly and are more sought after.

Maybe, just maybe, if HW were to go back to a 25mm bore on the 77/97 (or even go further with a 24mm bore), especially now that many US shooters value firing cycle quality over power, they could unleash it as a new / heavily revised model, boosting sales further. If they were to go 24mm, even people like me with too many already would be queuing up for them.....

Just shifting focus a bit onto the 99 Tone, if the several factors that make the 99 a good rifle for the British market, like you said earlier, if the 99 (or should we say 50) hadn't of been fitted with the Rekord trigger unit and been sold at such a decent price (if I remember correctly around the £220 mark), also being pretty close to that UK power sweet spot, would it have been as popular as it is now? I remember Tony Wall slagging them down many years ago, only recommending the 95 at the time, the other question is, is it actually that popular outside of the BBS, in the real world?

[TonyL]

I know what you mean, Pete. The very competitive price (for many years) most certainly must have helped with the 99's popularity. That low price had tempted me for a long time before I first dipped my toe into "99 water" with a pre-owned one in 2013, but those scare stories over galling had deterred me.

But once I had my very first shot with it I just knew it was so right......it was a feeling reminiscent of me firing my first 77 for the first time back in 1984..... The sweet, sweet firing cycle like breaking glass...quick, but not sharp or harsh. Bloody awesome rifles.

Yes, I think the inclusion of the Rekord trigger, the U.K. suitable swept volume and low price certainly helped. The lighter weight and more compact dimensions must be factors too. And looking into "YouTubeLand" the rifle does seem to enjoy popularity away from the BBS and all over the globe....including the US.

[oldskoolzzz]

Just shifting focus a bit onto the 99 Tone, if the several factors that make the 99 a good rifle for the British market, like you said earlier, if the 99 (or should we say 50) hadn't of been fitted with the Rekord trigger unit and been sold at such a decent price (if I remember correctly around the £220 mark), also being pretty close to that UK power sweet spot, would it have been as popular as it is now? I remember Tony Wall slagging them down many years ago, only recommending the 95 at the time, the other question is, is it actually that popular outside of the BBS, in the real world?

I seem to remember they were sub £200 New at one time Pete,

It was way back in around 2008 when I first tried a 99 and purely by accident as I knew nothing about them at the time.

Spotted a used one probably early 2000’s build at an RFD whilst purchasing a pistol and I asked to have a look and instantly thought at the time ‘this feels rather nice in the shoulder’ so took a gamble as it reminded me of a lightweight 80.

Once home I test fired it in my garage range I was smitten it shot lovely (.22) then the slippery slope started

I was hooked since 2008 probably to date the springer I’ve owned the most from early versions to later versions old and new with many tuning and diy projects along the way.

Back in 2008 I had just joined the bbs so did some research on the 99 and was actually quite shocked that folks didn’t seem to like them as it appeared they were a tad runt of the litter in the herman stable and overlooked as most assumed they were a junior or ladies type setup.

Obviously they eventually gained popularity and perfect sub 12 setup wasn’t long before ‘tooners’ changed there toon so to speak

With underpinnings stemming back to the early HW50’s I think Hans in an interview once claimed the HW50 as actually one of his favourite models in the lineup.

Regards the trigger question Pete I think if Weihrauch had only fitted say a mediocre trigger to all there springer lineup they wouldn’t be anywhere near as popular as what they are and not just with 50/99

[look no hands]

I seem to remember they were sub £200 New at one time Pete,

It was way back in around 2008 when I first tried a 99 and purely by accident as I knew nothing about them at the time.

Spotted a used one probably early 2000’s build at an RFD whilst purchasing a pistol and I asked to have a look and instantly thought at the time ‘this feels rather nice in the shoulder’ so took a gamble as it reminded me of a lightweight 80.

Once home I test fired it in my garage range I was smitten it shot lovely (.22) then the slippery slope started

I was hooked since 2008 probably to date the springer I’ve owned the most from early versions to later versions old and new with many tuning and diy projects along the way.

Back in 2008 I had just joined the bbs so did some research on the 99 and was actually quite shocked that folks didn’t seem to like them as it appeared they were a tad runt of the litter in the herman stable and overlooked as most assumed they were a junior or ladies type setup.

Obviously they eventually gained popularity and perfect sub 12 setup wasn’t long before ‘tooners’ changed there toon so to speak

With underpinnings stemming back to the early HW50’s I think Hans in an interview once claimed the HW50 as actually one of his favourite models in the lineup.

Regards the trigger question Pete I think if Weihrauch had only fitted say a mediocre trigger to all there springer lineup they wouldn’t be anywhere near as popular as what they are and not just with 50/99

I'd often thought that myself, I wonder if the Rekord trigger (or something like it) had been fitted to all BSA's then would have they been more popular than they are now?
Like you and I have said, they didn't seem popular a few years ago, Tony Wall slatted them but soon jumped on the band wagon when he found out people wanted them, I have found that SFS has shifted opinion on rifles, when I visited them back in the 2000's, they used to sell and tune the Superstar but I was told the other day that they will only service them now and apparently they didn't tune up that well anyway, I think mines lovely with a WW kit in it.

[oldskoolzzz]

I'd often thought that myself, I wonder if the Rekord trigger (or something like it) had been fitted to all BSA's then would have they been more popular than they are now?
Like you and I have said, they didn't seem popular a few years ago, Tony Wall slatted them but soon jumped on the band wagon when he found out people wanted them, I have found that SFS has shifted opinion on rifles, when I visited them back in the 2000's, they used to sell and tune the Superstar but I was told the other day that they will only service them now and apparently they didn't tune up that well anyway, I think mines lovely with a WW kit in it.

Possibly Pete, although having a sweet match type trigger is probably top of the tree in requirements for most there are also the internals that play a massive part especially with perfect sub12 setups. And not to mention in the case of break barrels a proper pivot bolt and decent lockup is a must.

From what I gather with the Lightning it’s just the trigger and internals that fall short and perhaps some would prefer a better blacking/blueing finish.

Please BSA go back to the drawing board sort the internals and fit a sweet trigger for the mk2 version I’m sure it would then be a worthy contender

[look no hands]

Possibly Pete, although having a sweet match type trigger is probably top of the tree in requirements for most there are also the internals that play a massive part especially with perfect sub12 setups. And not to mention in the case of break barrels a proper pivot bolt and decent lockup is a must.

From what I gather with the Lightning it’s just the trigger and internals that fall short and perhaps some would prefer a better blacking/blueing finish.

Please BSA go back to the drawing board sort the internals and fit a sweet trigger for the mk2 version I’m sure it would then be a worthy contender

The silly thing is, the pseudo trigger they fitted to the Supersport Custom, Superstar and Goldstar are pretty nice triggers, they seem to break nice and crisp, even the trigger on my early Lightning XL is pretty good, I agree it's not a Rekord, nor does it come close to it's performance but for a sporting trigger, it's totally acceptable, in fact it's recently become my new go to rifle.

[oldskoolzzz]

The silly thing is, the pseudo trigger they fitted to the Supersport Custom, Superstar and Goldstar are pretty nice triggers, they seem to break nice and crisp, even the trigger on my early Lightning XL is pretty good, I agree it's not a Rekord, nor does it come close to it's performance but for a sporting trigger, it's totally acceptable, in fact it's recently become my new go to rifle.

Know what you mean Pete, it’s a funny old game take the theoben rammers I’ve had plenty of them but never found the trigger nice enough for me to stick with them.

It’s ironic as the worst rifle I ever had was a SLR98 literally bought it on the way to a club session one evening via feeeads and was grinning like a Cheshire Cat.

Had the swarm of club folks (they were all rapid and theoben fanbois at the club) wanting to see my latest purchase so obliged and after the handling and drooling proceeded to settle down for the session, I put one mag through it and absolutely hated it

Chap in the next bay (Tony, no not that tony ) was watching me and I said to him here you have a mag and see what you think, his first shot I could see him smile so that was it. I never even brought the horrible thing home with me

Broke my record literally 4mins use and probably ownership in less than 25mins ffs

[look no hands]

Know what you mean Pete, it’s a funny old game take the theoben rammers I’ve had plenty of them but never found the trigger nice enough for me to stick with them.

It’s ironic as the worst rifle I ever had was a SLR98 literally bought it on the way to a club session one evening via feeeads and was grinning like a Cheshire Cat.

Had the swarm of club folks (they were all rapid and theoben fanbois at the club) wanting to see my latest purchase so obliged and after the handling and drooling proceeded to settle down for the session, I put one mag through it and absolutely hated it

Chap in the next bay (Tony, no not that tony ) was watching me and I said to him here you have a mag and see what you think, his first shot I could see him smile so that was it. I never even brought the horrible thing home with me

Broke my record literally 4mins use and probably ownership in less than 25mins ffs

Now on the other hand, my Sirocco 2000 has a superb trigger but like you say, I've had numerous other rammers with bad triggers, its a shame because it fits me like a glove but is just a bugger to cock and isn't as accurate as I'd like it to be, if I think about it, there's not many springers that actually tick all the boxes for me, I have to say apart from my .25 Supersport, the .22 Lightning XL, .177 Longbow and my .177 Prosport, the other rifles in my collection don't really enter into the box ticking categories, they just all look nice, but the trigger's and firing cycles are nothing to write home about.

[TonyL]

If they cared, 25mm would be realistic, as they are still making the 25mm HW30 and probably still have the drawings for the 25mm internals.
24mm would never happen as it needs a totally new seal.
But they probably dont care as long as the 26mm guns sell.

Very good points, evert.

[TonyL]

I seem to remember they were sub £200 New at one time Pete,

It was way back in around 2008 when I first tried a 99 and purely by accident as I knew nothing about them at the time.

Spotted a used one probably early 2000’s build at an RFD whilst purchasing a pistol and I asked to have a look and instantly thought at the time ‘this feels rather nice in the shoulder’ so took a gamble as it reminded me of a lightweight 80.

Once home I test fired it in my garage range I was smitten it shot lovely (.22) then the slippery slope started

I was hooked since 2008 probably to date the springer I’ve owned the most from early versions to later versions old and new with many tuning and diy projects along the way.

Back in 2008 I had just joined the bbs so did some research on the 99 and was actually quite shocked that folks didn’t seem to like them as it appeared they were a tad runt of the litter in the herman stable and overlooked as most assumed they were a junior or ladies type setup.

Obviously they eventually gained popularity and perfect sub 12 setup wasn’t long before ‘tooners’ changed there toon so to speak

With underpinnings stemming back to the early HW50’s I think Hans in an interview once claimed the HW50 as actually one of his favourite models in the lineup.

Regards the trigger question Pete I think if Weihrauch had only fitted say a mediocre trigger to all there springer lineup they wouldn’t be anywhere near as popular as what they are and not just with 50/99

Ah, so you were one of the earlier "pioneers" of the "new" HW50, Nick. Good man. You will have seen the light before the masses.